In Reply to: Into the minds (and hearts) of men..... posted by Singles Anonymous (reposted) on March 06, 2003 at 11:24:00:
You wrote: What was it like for you to have your wife/loved one fucked by other men? Describe what you went thru. Was it a big struggle? How did you cope with it?
I thought I already wrote clearly about that. Well here's some more. It wasn't something I enjoyed. I was confused because it was supposed to make sense to the strange Law of Love and other logic I'd been taught. Leadership said the solution to our marriage problems was to be yielded to God, and that included FFing. It felt so wrong but I was taught those were my doubts, the enemy's thoughts. Not sharing your wife with other men was selfishness and not submitting to Jesus. As I mentioned before, my 1st wife was very conservative and I was pushing for liberalism, so when it happened I was supposed to be relieved and maybe I was in some way, but something died inside me. The times my 1st wife went out ESing and "massaging" I'd do what I could to numb the pain and not worry. Stay up and watch TV, try to compensate by thinking positive. It was something I hoped wouldn't continue, and I dreaded the whole situation I was in. It was especially painful, I was really upset, when she told me some guy had hurt her vagina, and I took a look and her clitoris was scraped so hard it was bleeding. What more do you want to hear? I couldn't kiss my wife anymore. I tried to get my own sexual needs met, but it got reduced to her servicing me the way she serviced other men, just before she ran out the door.
You wrote: The times that you shared with other women, beyond the sex, did you enjoy it?
Yes, my marriage was so bad, that we'd have these separations, and then I was sincerely looking for someone new who matched me better.
You wrote: Did you ever feel bad or guilty for ‘taking advantage’ of them? Or did it even occur to you as such?
No, because I wasn't one of those that pushed to have my way or pressured anyone as far as I know. Whatever happened happened quite naturally, as natural as in can get in such an artificial environment. I was thanked and appreciated, although, who knows how much of that appreciation wasn't brainwashing that they were supposed to show me appreciation? Deep inside I had values, and I was a sucker for equal and fair participation, I wouldn't feel something was genuine if I coerced and took advantage of a vulnerable person.
You wrote: Were there times when you had feelings for them?
At the risk of sounding flaky, I was close to 2 women (not at the same time) over the years, and very close and fell in love deeply with 1 of them, but we were separated by leadership. 1 sister I thought I was close to was a player. Another one became my 2nd wife. When I was single, I was happy that I got to visit some single sisters and stay over, but there were always feelings involved. The only time there weren't any serious feelings, was once at a NAFM and even then, I had found a sister all alone in a tent and we got pretty drunk and had sex, and it wasn't all cold and calculated in any way. For me there were always sincere feelings. There were times when I did things I regretted, but not anything that I wouldn't have done in life outside the group, just regular guy mistakes that can happen from dating. After being all enthusiastic about someone I changed my mind and hurt her. A lot of things happened just like in a dating scenario, but just that this environment was heavily sexualized.
If I sum up my involvements in the group it will look something like this:
25, I talked my way out of any sex at all
3, serious romantic involvements, 2 forcefully separated, 1 became my 2nd wife
1, I thought I was serious but she was a player
3, Useless involvements bad for both parties
5, meaningful 1-nighters, but circumstances didn't permit for me to pursue the possibility of a relationship.
4, married women surprised me by visiting me in my room and sharing with me, and no it wasn't rape
1, regular sex partner where the relationship was more sexual for her, but more emotional for me
You write: Did your regard for women change from before you joined to before the ffing rev to during it?
Before I joined I was a seriously horny teenager looking to get laid, not too different from the stereotypes in teenage movies out there, only that I was sincere and honestly considered marrying the first woman I had sex with. Laughable now, but it made sense then.
The group’s teachings did change my attitude towards sex. I was taught a woman shouldn't ever have to say she had a headache. If I was a girl crazy teenager I practically worshipped the female form openly. I found it liberating and honest. But I had a serious conscience going and never pushed anything on anyone, and I was always extremely sensitive to what other people were feeling.
You wrote: To Husband: How did you make your wife feel loved and special?
This is a good question in connection to the 1 above. I made her feel special because I let her know I wasn't going to share her and I made her feel very protected, I cared for her like nobody else did. Other brothers would probably have tried to pimp her off and get some credit. I got her out of the group before she could do any FFing, and when she got out she told how she appreciated that I stopped her from that. She told me how horrible FFing was for her.
The problem is I had my own process to deal with. When I got out, I questioned my entire sexual experience. My self-worth was so damaged I didn't know if I was able to make connections and get sex in a natural environment. I didn't know if I was likeable or lovable, and if anyone would really take an interest in me for who I was. I was in search of sexual self-esteem. I still carried a few ideas about sexual freedom and I still had a few Law of Love leftovers in my system, and I was still a "horny but sincere" guy. That's when I really really hurt my 2nd wife. I started having a few involvements, only now they were called extra-marital affairs. As much as I hurt her and she was now free to tell me off, she never stood in my way. She let the situation play itself out until I learned for myself what was right and wrong about what I was doing. After a few months it died down. But not before some serious damage to our relationship. We too had lost our innocence. Maybe the innocence was never really there, but if it was, I blew it. I betrayed her trust. We parted ways not because we didn't love and care for each other, but because we had too many things to deal with in ourselves in coming out of the group after all those years. I had an overwhelming feeling I had to pick up where I left off and try to find myself again.