In Reply to: It's much more serious than that. posted by OT2 on May 23, 2005 at 13:16:48:
I have only a few minutes, but wanted to try and give my personal ideas on your questions. When you mentioned that you left the TFI in 1974, I'm not surprised you may not understand what has been happening in the TFI, and how much things have changed from then. Totally different worlds.The CAPS are to diferentiate between your questions and my answers only, and are defintely not intended to mean I'm shouting at you.
All the best.
1. What, to you, makes up the characteristics of people who are TFI? YOU CAN ONLY BE A MEMBER OF THE TFI BY FILLING OUT YOUR MONTHLY REPORT AND SENDING IN YOUR FULL TITHE. AS WELL AS FOLLOWING THE MANY NEW REQUIREMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN BROUGHT INTO PRACTISE SINCE LAST YEARS RENEWAL.
a. Have they publicly divorced themselves, from the point of view of a supposedly Christian ministry with regards to the behavioral fraud and teachings of David Brandt Berg and his followers? In fact, have they admitted the fraudulent practices of Berg’ own mother, who it can be shown, faked the supposed supernatural healing upon which her entire ministry was based?
YOU SHOULD SEND THEM AN EMAIL AND ASK THEM THESE TYPES OF QUESTIONS YOURSELF.
b. Have they believably demonstrated that they are not TFI associates of ANY kind, including Charter Member, Missionary Member, or Fellow Member?
FROM WHAT I KNOW ABOUT THESE FOLKS, THEY HAVE NOT BEEN ANY KIND OF STATUS FOR A LONG TIME. I DON'T KNOW THEM PERSONALLY. NO IS REQUIRED TO DEMONSTRATE ANYTHING TO ANYONE IF THEY DON'T WANT TO. BOTTOM LINE IS: IF YOU DON'T FOLLOW THE NEW REQUIREMENTS, AND THERE ARE MANY, PLUS SEND IN YOUR FULL TITHE AND MONTHLY REPORT YOU CANNOT BE ANY KIND OF MEMBER AT ALL.
c. Are they tithers of any kind (see http://www.xfamily.org/index.php/Tithe:
“By tradition tithe is a tenth of one's income that is donated to the clergy. In The Family
tithing is mandatory and supports the group's leadership and infrastructure.”)?
I VERY MUCH DOUBT IT FROM LOOKING AT THEIR WEBSITE. I WOULD IMAGINE THEY WOULD TITHE TO A WORK THAT THEY ARE LOCALLY INVOLVED IN. WHY DON'T YOU WRITE TO THEM TO ASK THEM? LIKE ANY KIND OF CHURCH OR GROUP ONE WANTS TO BELONG TO A TITHE OR MONTHLY GIFT GOES TO SUPPORT THAT SAID GROUP OR CHURCH. AS MUCH AS WE MAY NOT AGREE TO SUPPORT TFI, LEADERSHIP ANS INFASTRUCTURE, MANY CHURCH FOLKS GIVE A LOT TO THEIR CHURCHES AND DON'T GET ANYTHING FOR IT AT ALL.
d. How are such members defined by the cult?
THERE IS A LOT OF DIFFERENT WAYS THESE PEOPLE COULD BE VIEWED. AS FAR AS HOW "THE STAR SINGERS" ARE DEFINED, I'VE NO IDEA. WHY DON'T YOU WRITE TO THEM AND ASK THEM?
From TFI pub, “The Professionals—An Open Answer To An Open Letter”:
"33. However, I think a misconception that many have-–especially, but not only, the younger folks--is that you have to live the life of a full-time disciple to be in the Family. That's not true. You can be a Family member without being a Charter Member disciple. You can do the things that you, Daniel, listed earlier–-that is, love the Lord, love others, and live a life of service in the Family--without having to deal with the difficulties of being a full-time disciple. How do you do that? By being a Fellow member.“
“34. I can hear some of the young folks groaning! But see, many CM and FM “members have the wrong attitude about Fellow membership. “
"35. Many tend to look down on Fellow members. Some consider the Fellow member circle a place where failures or problem cases go, those who “couldn't make it.” But that's not what Fellow membership is all about. Fellow members are important, full-fledged members of the Family--they believe, they witness, win souls, and pass out the message; they tithe and do many of the same things as Charter members. The difference is that they've decided that living the full–time discipleship life within the CM Family is not for them. But though they don't live the way the Charter members are required to, they are Family members who are valuable and who collectively do a wonderful job.“
JUST FOR YOUR INFORMATION THAT LETTER WAS WRITTEN A LONG WHILE BACK NOW AND MANY THINGS HAVE CHANGED, EVEN FOR FELLOW MEMBERS. THERE IS NO LONGER CM, AND TWO NEW LEVELS, AND FELLOW MEMBERS ARE IN A DIFFERENT BALL GAME NOW AS WELL.
2. What has believing you got to do with the allegation that “…if they were they wouldn't
be involved in all of those church ministries and stuff like that.” By that I mean:
a. Are you kidding? When there is evidence on their own webpages (see Heartclub.com) that they are portraying Mo’ Letter quotes as quotes By Mother Eve, and that these pages solicit funds, can’t you see what that means?
I WOULDN'T WORRY TOO MUCH ABOUT WHAT MOTHER EVE IS SAYING IN THOSE LETTERS. I ASLO GOT NO IDEA WHY THEY WOULD PUT THEM WEBSITE. SHE HAS NOT HAD ANY PUBLISHED WORDS OR BEEN HEARD OF IN THE TFI FOR MAYBE OVER 15 OR MORE YEARS.
AS FOR SELLING TAPES AND CD'S OF THEIR SONGS, WHAT DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH TFI? NOTHING. ANYONE CAN DO THAT. EVEN YOU IF YOU WANT. DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING. LIKE EVERYONE KEEPS SAYING, "WHEN I LEFT I HAD NO MONEY, ETC". LOOKS LIKE THESE PEOPLE DID SOMETHING TO SUPPORT THEMSELVES, INSTEAD OF DOING NOTHING. WHAT'S WRONG WITH THAT?
b. Can’t you see that a “Christian Faith”, defined historically, has nothing to do with Berg’s teachings, which in the words of Peter, are PRETENTIONS to the Christian faith, and are “feigned words”, with which Berg, and all his followers, INCLUDING the “Star Family Singers” are “...making merchandise...” of the
I'M NOT DISAGREEING WITH YOU. THEY MAY HAVE ALL THE BERG LETTERS ON THEIR WEBSITE, IT STILL DOESN'T MEAN THEY ARE TFI.ANYONE COULD DO THAT. I DIDN'T READ ANYWHERE THAT THEY WERE PROMOTING TFI MATERIALS TO SELL TO OTHERS. THEY DON'T PROCLAIM TO BELONG TO THE TFI ON THEIR WEBSITE.
I’ll tell you what—divulge to these bona fide Christian ministries the affiliations of the Star Family Singers, and I guarantee they’ll drop sponsorship, and funding, of them like a hot potato!
I'M SORRY I DON'T SEE ANY AFFILIATIONS FROM LOOKING AT THEIR WEBSITE. UNLIKE MANY TFI WEBSITES. NO DOUBT YOU MAY BE RIGHT, IF INDEED THEY WERE AFFLIATED TO THE TFI, BUT I DON'T BELIEVE THEY ARE.
Your failure to agree with this reasoning would only prove that: ONLY IF YOUR ONLY WAY OF LOOKING AT THE SITUATION WAS CORRECT.
a. You yourself are still a TFI affiliate of some sort or another, or that
b. You are hopelessly naďve, or
c. You have the intelligence of said potato, MMMMM....WHAT CAN ONE SAY TO SOMEONE USING SUCH ASSUMPTIONS?or
d. Your refusal to think these things through, that is, your willful ignorance, makes you think that imitating the dishonest practices of TFI is actual Christian ministry, so you’re still the equivalent of the potato, mentally and morally.
YOUR NOT LEAVING MUCH TO DISCUSS HERE ARE YOU? THERE IS NOT MUCH ANYONE COULD SAY AFTER THAT. AS THEY ARE NOT TFI, THEY ARE FREE TO DO WHATEVER THEY LIKE IN THEIR CHRISTIAN MINISTRY. JUST LIKE YOU! I DON'T SEE THEM IMITATING ANYTHING. THEY COULD BE COPYING ANYBODY, WHO KNOWS?
3. You do realize that funds continuing to be “tithed” to TFI actively promote all the
“earthly, sensual and devilish” (James 3) practices TFI is guilty of over the years
ACTIVELY perpetuate not only these beliefs, but practices, of kidnap, oppression, torture, sexual molestation of minors, prostitution of non-minor women, and so on , and so on, and so on? NOT SURE WHAT THE "STAR SINGERS" HAS TO DO WITH YOUR QUESTION HERE. I WOULD BE WILLING TO BET BIG MONEY THAT THEY DON'T TITHE TO THE TFI. BY THE WAY, YOU'RE PREACHING TO THE CHOIR HERE.
I CAN TELL YOU I HAVE BEEN VERY DISHEARTENED WHEN I SAW GOOD KIDS WALK OUT OF THE TFI AND ENDED UP IN A BAD SITUATION.
ALL THE BEST,