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In Reply to: Hold the phone posted by rocket scientist on June 11, 2006 at 23:19:35:
There are many hairs that need splitting in your views. I'll only deal with one. Whether you want it or not, TF is a part of society and their members have human characteristics. Maybe you and your friends don't believe in the things that Family members do but, so what? They are not the only ones who believe in pedophilia, tax evasion, etc. People from all walks, including good families stray into that kind of aberration. The prisons are full of criminals who came from society, obviously not mainstream. Is it desirable? No for me, otherwise I would be looking for them to join or at least be associated with them.
You don't think they are looking for perfection? Why do I need to prove this, specially to you an excult member who received daily lessons on how to lie, cheat, be an adulterer and many other things? We may have been bad students and in their views we flunked the course but isn’t that enough prove of their quest to perfection? We were, maybe still are and they certainly are, masters of deception. How did that happen? C’mon, get realistic and not so emotional you fail to see who they really are. How else could they have perfected so many things, such as lying and hiding their true identities.
Do you think that the quest for perfection only means good? *Everybody* tries to get better at something. It doesn't have to be on something good. What is the difference between TF’s attitude and, let's say, that of ENRON top executives?
You ask:
You mean that when DBERG was molesting his own children and then later children in the family and splitting families apart, turning women out to be hookers "for Jesus", accusing victims of horrible violence as being the cause because of lack of dedication and tithing, and a whole lot more I don't have time to write, that the family was seeking "perfection"?
My answers are yes. Just because their values are sociopath doesn’t mean they are not smart or try to improve what they do.
But what really gets me, and is the reason I answered you are your last couple of paragraphs.
You just don't get it. I suspect that many people in the exer community understand TF so well that we just have trouble getting how *others* will understand the things we say. You really don't get my example of Hitler, do you? Are we so naive??? I am suspecting more and more that we are. So here is my explanation and thank you for asking the question (no it is not sarcasm).
In order to understand simple things that are or have been a part of TF, like Deceivers yet True, even the word selah, a person needs a lot of context. Not the whole history of TF but at least much more than just a simple factual explanation or sentence. Will that make it better? You bet it will, because it is not sufficient to simplistic say "So and so is not in The Family". Or, “yes, he is part of Activated Ministries but that is different from TF".
Oversimplifying facts that don't include contextual information is what we were taught in TF. Still remember that? I hope that at least this is clear to you and other who are reading these lines. We were taught to never volunteer information, to say the least possible and let the systemites imagine anything they want to. All we had to do was be true in our hearts. Has TFI already renounce to this particular little teaching? I don’t think so. For this very same reason it is that we need to provide as much as possible of contextual information as we can muster, and without fear of redundancy we need to include it in all places as necessary.
Now, with in this light, your reaction when I reported that TF is just like the rest of society is because you didn’t have some context. Of course I left out a lot and you didn’t like the comparison because you have a lot of background. What about a person who is unfamiliar with TF and reads something superficial and factually dry without the context to place it within all of the rest of the picture?
The problem is not that the facts are reported but in how they are reported. The unfamiliar person will judge it and understand it with the wrong context. They have a different set of values, much like we don’t understand the criminal minds. When there is lack of context it is the values of the reader or hearer what creates the context.
The values of TFI and of the different entities and corporations that they have created to support them are different than the values held by the vast majority of people in society. That is why information for the general population who are not familiar with TF also needs the context. Another way to control information is reporting the facts without that context.
These things are so self evident that we hardly think about them. We love and like certain people in TFI but it is their values what suck. Just as much as the relatives of somebody in prison may love the person by not necessarily like what they do. Another explanation of somebody in prison would be, "but he just wanted to survive". "He robbed the bank because he needed money for his drugs". We know that TF and Family members have plenty of logical explanations for what they do. They may not be logical to us who know so much about their methods but it is enough for the general public.
That is why context is important every time we report something "neutral" about TF and its associates. People who are not familiar with them or lack the tremendous background knowledge we have about them will not understand why we make such a big fuss about TF.
If I am looking for information about Activated Ministries I will find some wonderful advertising in their web site. I may also find a few negative comments here and there but because of the preponderance of information being positive, I would dismiss the negatives. The amount of information TF and its associates put out about themselves is large, very large. Semi-negative comments by a bunch of dissidents means nothing and does little for those who ignore TF's methods and doctrines.
I am not saying that only emotionally negative information ruins the message but also that which lacks contextual information.
We have the context, we don't need it and many times don't even see the need. That's why you are asking all of your questions to me. That's why you were offended by my words. I hope you are also offended by all the reports that only include factual information and exclude the context so that uninformed people can correctly understand. Sometimes the truth gets swept under the rug for the sake of being neutral and not to offend anybody.
You may not see things the same way I do but I am not here to convince you of anything. What we, as exmembers of a cult, need to understand is that most people think the cult’s behavior is so bizarre that what we say is unbelievable. When some don’t give TF an inch many others, the general public in particular, give them all the benefit of the doubt. Even some exmembers who should know better fall for that – just go around looking in some websites.
This has been long and I don’t expect to have to repeat these things. I have my mind made up about TF. It looks like you are too. I remain skeptical about those who are trying to stay on the fence and be reluctant to inform the public of what they know.
