Posted by on June 30, 2011 at 17:54:42
In Reply to: Re: Slaves by choice? posted by long time exer on June 30, 2011 at 12:53:31:
long time exer:
I am not sure if you’re disagreeing with just me, Skep, or the both of us—probably the latter?
I don’t believe that my personal account was as simplistic as you seem to make it out to be, at least in your own perception. I din’t really realize totally that I WAS throwing my life away, but the choices I made were made on the basis of freely-chosen spiritual arrogance, I can see now.
I’ve repented for all those things, and know in my hear that God has forgiven me, and is constantly fulfilling His promise to “restore what the locust has eaten”.
I wasn’t even saved till a while after I had already joined TF. I had just come out of the heavily-demonized Yoga occult, but I had prayed to Jesus to know him, after joining, and He made sure that that had happened. Several Christians at University had warned me about TF as a cult; I was just too arrogantly “hippiefied” by then to want to, much less be able to, be able to resist the proffered access to the “super-hipness in God’s name” offered by the cult—it was the same Satanically-directed “pride of life” sin access demonically promised by what I had already opened myself up to, at will, and by choice—freely chosen.
The Yoga occultists had essentially offered the same spiritual “bait”. That’s how the devil always offers it up, so that we are legitimately blameworthy, against our God-given conscience.
Berg just followed suit; perfectly, as a sub-christian false prophet; with demonic “signs following”. I experienced them all. There was definitely, for me, at least, consistently, and for several others, on a repeat on-demand basis, a heavy spiritual presence surrounding Berg’s hand-chosen leadership, and his writings.
I even gave an “accurate-according-to-Berg” “Oplexicon” prophecy, BEFORE I read the letter. But the atmosphere, and the “promise”of spiritual exaltation alongside Berg and his “leaders” was constantly the bait for the sin. Always.
Yes, I was ignorant, but I still freely chose it for a long time—so I was willingly throwing MY OWN LIFE away. There was ALWAYS the arrogance of the spiritual pride being offered, and it was ALWAYS a choice.
And God consistently sent people who tried to convince me I was wrong, but I was too proud to hear them, for a very long time. I finally listened, at the World’s Fair in Spokane, Washington, at the 1974 world’s Fair, when I met a past associate of Berg and Fred Jordan, who was a genuine mature Christian by then (not Jordan—he was still a crook!). He prayed for me, I agreed, and God led me out a week later.
Right after I had joined, I left a “Babe’s Ranch” to go to Brownsville, Texas, where I was on the first team to cross into Mexico (actually the first team to leave the US to go south at all), as a pubs translator, and a provisioner, and temporarily as an inspirationalist.
Leadership expected my Dad to become a big “king”, but he was too smart for that, and I was punished/demoted/”dealt with”, BECAUSE he didn’t.
At the same time, alone on guard duty, I asked Jesus, for the very first time, to do what John the Baptist promised He would, and was baptized with the Holy Spirit, and with FIRE—and I was all by myself when it happened, and told no one. I was embarrassed to admit it had not really happened by that time, and I kept it by myself.
And, because I could really hear accurately about where to go for provisions, I was made a head provisioner, in Cuernavaca, Mexico City and Toluca. I was told by the top leader in Mexico at that time that my “receiver” (or ability to hear God) was like a 12-volt, while everybody else’s (including most leadership) was a six-volt at best. I didn’t know what to think of that at the time, but it really angered a lot of my “superiors” when this guy said it, in their presence, to humiliate them.
So I began to really expect to hear from God personally, and I did. That’s why I left; in short. I chose what I read in the Bible over what Berg was saying. Berg obviously didn’t love anyone but himself, and, by stark contrast, I began to realize God’s true love for me personally.
I do believe that when someone is addicted to alcohol or drugs, they are committed to those things; always desiring more. When a true Christian is addicted to the ministry, like Paul wrote about in 1Cor 16, they are always striving to minister, in fact, they look for opportunities to minister.
We all chose to leave that, in order to addict ourseleves to Berg and his demonized “ministry”.
By Berg’s own admission in his writings, he could not identify a time when he actually got saved; he just learned the language and manipulation techniques, and the willingness to be an inveterate and pathological liar and arch-deceiver.
His immediate leadership was immediately the same, and they manipulated a group of mostly ignorant puffed-up baby Christians, and turnover was high and constant.
It was hard for many to admit they had been so very wrong. And, like Jeremy Spencer, some found that they had always been unrepentant perverts/sex sinners during most of their entire membership.
And, a good psychologist will tell you that there is an attendant pride even in most enablers and co-dependants—a great deal of focus of attention is on them as well, not just the “problem case”—kind of like the notorious Munchausen-by-proxy mental ilness—they wouldn’t be as “important” without the addict’s problem and the possibility they might “save” them, or at least be essential to their existence AS an addict; whether of substance abuse OR psychological “sickness” (and yet blameworthy) behaviors/wrong points of view & false beliefs.
Even a victim of physical abuse must CHOOSE, ultimately, to get legitimate help; from the police, shelters, and other organizations whenr and when possible—there is help available, in many cases, despite the existence of industries devoted to the abuse/slavery worldwide.
Just like leaving a cult like TF, it does take a great deal of courage. Please see , as well as committed outside help, and funding, from others. And there are a multitude of choices along the way, in order for both victims and perpetrators to escape the “life”. May God help them, and us, all.
2 Tim 3:13 KJV: “But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.”
Sincerely,
OT2
PS--Slaves by choice? Some were; some weren't, IMO.