Posted by Farmer on April 15, 2011 at 05:30:20
In Reply to: Re: can't cope with some what you wrote posted by long time exer on April 14, 2011 at 14:33:03:
You said:
Long classes, purging sessions, emphasis on Wurmbrandt and Frankl, strict obedience without question, and a belief that what I had experienced in "getting saved" as being something very very real, were parts of what oppressed me.
My reply
The "system" never gave you any feeling of oppression??...the "dark side" of us doesn't bother you..???...that's why I wanted salvation...the "system" still bothers me with it's pseudo-freedom and do as you please ...a satanic slogan also...and yes, I don't like many of my own traits...still...
Your reply
Something is definitely getting lost in translation. I'm not calling your religion poison. I'm calling the experience of being "saved" with what happened in the Family as being very poisonous in combination. A lot of what I see in religion today gives me the creeps. But I also know people that aren't the al queda version of Christians who are people I call friends.
This is the second time, you insinuate, that something is lost in translation...things just need to be clarified, what you're talking about and how I view it or not...I guess you're familiar with many a semantic conundrum (sometimes the adding of a comma makes just a huge difference in understanding...or the meaning of it)
...either by purposely speaking in riddles..to step up the interest and fascination (people like to solve riddles) or because someone in haste or sloppily argued and failed to makes things clear.It's rather difficult in about the space of a writing sheet or a fraction thereof...like in our posts here on the board...to always have a super high level of clarity.That's why we can ask...
I never insinuated, thought etc...that you're against "my religion"...whatever you understand by that.It only "plagues" and baffles me, that people can deny themselves (in hindsight) and may be others the beautiful experience of getting to know Christ in prayer
...and whatever other way first then in prayer...unless someone is like Paul...who gets supernaturally in contact with HIM...initiated by Jesus...but that is another subject...I consider myself a normal mortal and that's quite a bit the problem of charismatics who want to be at least on par with the apostles or some other prophet...
Didn't even Berg talk repeatedly in his letters about "our own prophet Joel"...and after some time, I figure...he couldn't stand any competition besides himself.Later it got dug up again...I suppose by K.Zerby and all got to read the recent "prophecies of Jesus" in quite colloquial English..unlike Berg...who muttered/sputtered things in Elisabethan English or whatever...supposedly archangel Michael...if I remember that correctly...but do I care??...and the more mundane talking came from Abrahim etc. etc.....for me Berg was an actor who identified himself later totally with his role...
Anyway...I think I posed the question here before...can any good come out of TFI??....and my longstanding opinion was/is...some, yes...and part of that is a fairly clean/clear salvation message.
Now I understand you correctly???...that you want none of that salvation message???...that was my assumption....I don't understand how you figured my religion would enter here????....but mind you...my "religion" started in teenage years...where I searched ...first in Asian and mystical...esoteric...religions...then I got "confronted" with the take of TFI...I did here/speak something like a salvation prayer already before...at an invitation of my classmates...when I went to some "revival-tent-meeting"...so I don't know the exact day of acknowledging my sin and Jesus as my saviour....
just to say...I don't want to ever miss it and I have super little grasp for the liking of a salvation prayer with slow poison...that's why I allowed myself to speak up.In other words...what do I care...whether it was TFI, who confronted me with the need of salvation...if it would have been another group...all the better...I figure nowadays...but it wasn't!!...that's the difference....whereas you seem to altogether be troubled by that experience...do I understand you now correctly...or better ...do you now get what I mean...because that is the way I understood you anyhow...
Because you're touching ..unbeknown to you I suppose...the core of a very touchy...fiercely debated subject over the ages...whether the ones saved can get lost again...or what is the falling away?...for that you would have to be familiar with the chapters of Hebrew 6 and 10...and may be that is all BS to you??...either way...this is my interest...that's why I cared to ask...
regarding whitewashing:...may be too strong a word...but it gives me a bit the jitters...when the faults...sins...even of the early days are not getting named correctly...We could open a new thread about it...plus worse was for me you failed to address the sins of the normal follower down at the bottom
you wrote:
Not sure what you meant about where things started or ended.
Well...what did you mean in the first place?...I took you to mean...that the abuse of woman and children started with Berg...I replied...may be a bit short for you...that it didn't end with Berg...the abuse...FFing etc...went right on down the line
...the early day in India...for me at least...in the eighties...we only survived better by the women/sisters..prostituting themselves (in the seventies they lived super frugally in India!!!!)...I lost my ex-mate by the way that way...who is to blame for that? me...not just Berg...this is what infuriated me...when I sense some whitewashing...I hope you didn't mean it that way....over