Posted by Farmer on December 19, 2011 at 09:18:36
In Reply to: Re: A matter of loyalty posted by Skep on December 19, 2011 at 04:31:02:
Besides your post having a bit of a mysterious touch...I might get into it later...going over it again...in order to not misinterpret you too much...here's where I don't get you...first of all:
. You think that it is BS not to acknowledge one's guilt, why?
I am not going to put that guilt on anybody unless they defend Berg and his evil doctrines.
And I tell you why, because we are all guilty and we all know that. A few people have tried to redirect any fault saying that it was not their fault or that they were manipulated, etc. Of course that is true but I am not going to stay in that state like they do. It is not about us even though we may need to vent and try to clean ourselves but that will come out in the conversation.
Reading posts on the board over the years...I am coming to the conclusion, that not just a few have a problem, to see their part, even as miniscule at it might seem
...for me it started out with begging,..when I had the inner feeling, that there is something wrong about it...might be different, if someone was doing more busking. I remember/heard, that Cana Bird had quite some success while then in Germany...so others I think...
so it's rather a confession deficit over the years...sure one shouldn't remain in depression over it...believing in forgiveness helps tremendously...but confession is the first thing.
You must have known, that people who have some dirt on their shoes and elsewhere...don't post anymore it seems.I know of at least 3-4 posters...one of them being Singing Sam...it's many years back...but I don't mean only them...like you said...it's all of us to varying degree...and that is bothering, to see people just rattling/drumming over Berg and TFI...
If I have time the next days, I will post something about the decline of Christianity and it's values...treasured less and less ...lived less and less...
You seriously think it's only a matter of TFI...having compromised heavily the Christian values??...it's not just Xmas...it's a ton of things.Sure...I would do it on journeys...but again, I can't hear anymore...Berg TFI...them...them
It's about my personal rottenness and salvation from it.
So yes...I put the blame on myself and them...and it's kind of nice to hear about it and not to philosofy about a ton of things...if that "ingredience is missing...
May be I missed those special confession posts...but I doubt it...I am a fairly "loyal" reader...but I would be happy to be wrong here.
The tragedy of TFI is, that so many people got wounded...kind of being in a haste because of 1993...e.g. Now we know we had tons of time more.You see...that letter _Squeeze don't jerk is not so off the beam either (But like prayer for love and mercy he didn't live what he preached either...therewith being in line with the Pharisees)...haven't read it in decades...just to make sure you won't go off again the tangent with me and my "defending Berg" ; )
...Anyone with some minor knowledge of Greek knows that sin/harmatia was used also in military context then for missing the target etc....he wasn't the only "preacher" using that...I heard mine in "my church" the other day talking about it...& mind you...hardly anyone knows TFI anymore outside us...that is an exception, if you meet someone, having read about them.
so there are quite a few examples, where Berg's teachings are not much different then what the average church says or some preacher in some book
dwells on.Zerby and Co skimmed lots of church-material later...to filter what was useful...the treasure series e.g. or good thots or whatever they were called...can't be bothered to look that up also.
so it might be, that tons of TBIC have a problem with Christianity in general...because they are reminded with the "GPish" leftover that is common to a whole lot of churches...that that is also part of the awful past...it might trigger them...my theory/reasoning.
But it is no use...like I felt necessary "accusing you"...that that common "material" doesn't exist...either people don't know their Bible or little of churches and church-history.
Berg used his pentecostal-background for mining that for his letters...so they are full of references to his past.
And when I left...I thought after a while of looking into it...that I might as well keep a big distance to pentecostalism and alike as well.I can say it did really help me...but I am not "militant" about my stance...but I believe, I made the right choice, after reading dozens of books and visiting hundreds of websites to get my faith on the right foundation...to see who is who nowadays in the "Christian landscape"
It was a lot of observation and pondering...
so I do have a fairly good knowledge, where Bergian stuff is common knowledge in the other churches...
Here's my assignment/question for you ; ) ...tell me/us
with which apostolic church fathers is the D.B. letter "Choice" in line...and with which very big church figures is it not?...you could do the answering over there at journeys...hate to offend/trigger more people...but the whole thing is important
...Some people act as if it's enough to shout: stupid hellish Berg and all the rest and then being against all he ever said, wrote...let be written and practicing...and then forgetting that out there in society is a lot of that making the rounds ever since as common teaching over the centuries....does that now surprise anybody???
I hope not...that's why I am a bit exaperated over such dialogues...e.g like with you..for I feel like talking against a wall at times.
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